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Ana Mizuki

Children of Gaia Revised- Liveblog.

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Curator

Not unfair points.

You're entirely right that the mediators, the diplomats, the guys who can see good in everyone are somewhat lost in these guys who are all peace and forgiveness and highly intolerant of people who don't agree. As I said, the mono-opinion is an issue and concentrates on only the worse elements of the tribe. But I do like that the weak points of the tribe is shown, even if I don't like it that all the good stuff got forgotten.

As for the uniting the tribes thing - yes, that deserved a hell of a lot more focus.

I'm not sure the Elders are blind to it. Some, maybe, but I doubt every member of the tribe is in a camp or particularly cares about others being in one. Besides, if the tribe is to have any self-respect, there should be elders who are getting shit done.

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Donor

that's the thing though, Woodstock is their tribal concolation, right? So when the spirals attack, Where are the elders? Nowhere to be seen, that's where. Everything that's done is by the pack and maybe one or two galliards that they met.

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Not unfair points.

You're entirely right that the mediators, the diplomats, the guys who can see good in everyone are somewhat lost in these guys who are all peace and forgiveness and highly intolerant of people who don't agree. As I said, the mono-opinion is an issue and concentrates on only the worse elements of the tribe. But I do like that the weak points of the tribe is shown, even if I don't like it that all the good stuff got forgotten.

Yeah, I do like the ignorant kids being there. Just not as the main focus.

I'm not sure the Elders are blind to it. Some, maybe, but I doubt every member of the tribe is in a camp or particularly cares about others being in one. Besides, if the tribe is to have any self-respect, there should be elders who are getting shit done.

Krieg put it best:

that's the thing though, Woodstock is their tribal concolation, right? So when the spirals attack, Where are the elders? Nowhere to be seen, that's where. Everything that's done is by the pack and maybe one or two galliards that they met.

Exactly. We KNOW elders were there. True Silverheels, Garret, etc. Yet, you barely see them or hear them do anything. But they don't lift a finger to FIGHT for their Caern...why?

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Curator

Exactly. We KNOW elders were there. True Silverheels, Garret, etc. Yet, you barely see them or hear them do anything. But they don't lift a finger to FIGHT for their Caern...why?

Poor writing.

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Poor writing.

Be is as it may, it's no excuse. There's a reason why elders are the talkers in tribebooks.

As sad it as it is, I wrote a short scene with the pack as much more realistic garou XD

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Curator

Be is as it may, it's no excuse. There's a reason why elders are the talkers in tribebooks.

As sad it as it is, I wrote a short scene with the pack as much more realistic garou XD

To clarify - by poor writing, I mean everything from the concept to execution; that it was a failed idea with no excuse and an indiscernible reason. I don't want to be seen as defending that particular part of it at all!

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To clarify - by poor writing, I mean everything from the concept to execution; that it was a failed idea with no excuse and an indiscernible reason. I don't want to be seen as defending that particular part of it at all!

Yeah, I get that.

But the creation of this book still has no excuses. We -know- Children of Gaia can fight, we -know- their thing is to bridge impossible peace.

So why didn't these writers get it? They could have asked any of the WtA staff about it easily.

And why did this staff allow a rite clearly made to break the litany for absolutely shit gain? This huge orgy thing that makes you a charach and all you get from it is something temp willpower would be used for.

...Also, want to know something hilarious? TB CoG revised is not on Print on Demand yet, while other tribebooks are XD

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Donor

another bit of "did not do basic research" occurs in the history section during one of the IC bouts. The metis has a seizure. what do his packmates do? they hold him down and stuff a bo stick in his mouth, stating that normally you'd use a rag for humans.

what does virtually every resource on seizures say? 1. don't stick ANYTHING in someone's mouth 2. don't hold them down

There's even a throwaway line about anticonvulsent drugs not working on Garou that names a specific drug. so the author HAD to have looked it up.

so a tribe of healers all apparently manage to have no comprehension of basic first aid. they have Movie First Aid. worse, its a packmate that they KNOW has this and apparently he hasn't said to them "hey jackasses, stop that." plus he's in Crinos so they are A) likely to hurt him B) likely to take aggravated damage from being extremely dumb.

FAIL.

(and if he HAD some actual research, he could have easily tripped over the ketogenic diet which MIGHT actually work on Garou and might have made an interesting background trade off of he can try and control it, but risks flat out frenzy from fasting)

ANYWAY. aside from that, there are some interesting things in here that got tossed in and really didn't come together. The Bringers of Eternal Peace are mentioned in here and then immediately tossed off as sad, pathetic, and misguided. which is sad because the general idea that killing may be the only way to bring peace and allow something to be reborn does make total sense with the cosmology and specifically with the Children of Gaia. They died and were reborn truly knowing Gaia. The Wyrm's true purpose it to destroy so that new life may come. There should be some CoGs that at least somewhat think following the path of the original balance wyrm may be the only way to win the apocalypse...

Throw in that Rite of Sin Eating (which specifically says you can use it on dead things) at the end and Last Blessing... and you can easily see how there should be a contingent of Children of Gaia who consider it their sacred duty to kill Black Spiral Dancer so they can be born again. who wants to kill BSDs? nevermind peace, they only way to end their suffering so they can truly know Gaia is to kill them and cleanse them. really, they are doing them a favor by killing them so they may know peace. (and then likely a sliver within that group that considered killing other Gaia Garou that were causing strife to be a the kindest thing they can do. Ritual assassination so they can truly have their eyes opened to the glory of God Gaia... yeah, that makes sense and brings you right back to horror territory)

If you want to go to crazy town, if you you look at a lot of the source books, in mixed tribe septs, the keeper of the land (and by default, keeper of the graves of Hallowed Heroes) almost always ends up as a Child of Gaia. If part of your tribal doctrine is "all Garou are Children of Gaia" and you really believe the whole bit about the CoGs being reborn from slaughtered cubs of other tribes, burying (or REburying) Garou from other tribes in the appropriate manner would be a general goal. CoGs thus end up as Keepers because they want to be able to ensure Garou are reborn properly as children of Gaia.

which can set up a rather bit of nasty dynamic if the other tribes actually get beyond the koombaya we're all one happy family exterior and go "wait a minute, you buried my great uncle Fangs of Shadows according to YOUR beliefs to make him a Child of Gaia? does this mean his ancestor spirit won't return to us? he'll be reborn as a Child of Gaia instead?"

That the CoGs are often presented as one of the most numerous tribes makes that scenario awfully interesting... peace through forced assimilation across generations.

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another bit of "did not do basic research" occurs in the history section during one of the IC bouts. The metis has a seizure. what do his packmates do? they hold him down and stuff a bo stick in his mouth, stating that normally you'd use a rag for humans.

what does virtually every resource on seizures say? 1. don't stick ANYTHING in someone's mouth 2. don't hold them down

There's even a throwaway line about anticonvulsent drugs not working on Garou that names a specific drug. so the author HAD to have looked it up.

so a tribe of healers all apparently manage to have no comprehension of basic first aid. they have Movie First Aid. worse, its a packmate that they KNOW has this and apparently he hasn't said to them "hey jackasses, stop that." plus he's in Crinos so they are A) likely to hurt him B) likely to take aggravated damage from being extremely dumb.

FAIL.

Easiest explanation? It's based on old belief that if a person has an epileptic fit, you need to put something in their mouth so they don't bite off their tongue and bleed to death.

If you want to go to crazy town, if you you look at a lot of the source books, in mixed tribe septs, the keeper of the land (and by default, keeper of the graves of Hallowed Heroes) almost always ends up as a Child of Gaia. If part of your tribal doctrine is "all Garou are Children of Gaia" and you really believe the whole bit about the CoGs being reborn from slaughtered cubs of other tribes, burying (or REburying) Garou from other tribes in the appropriate manner would be a general goal. CoGs thus end up as Keepers because they want to be able to ensure Garou are reborn properly as children of Gaia.

which can set up a rather bit of nasty dynamic if the other tribes actually get beyond the koombaya we're all one happy family exterior and go "wait a minute, you buried my great uncle Fangs of Shadows according to YOUR beliefs to make him a Child of Gaia? does this mean his ancestor spirit won't return to us? he'll be reborn as a Child of Gaia instead?"

That the CoGs are often presented as one of the most numerous tribes makes that scenario awfully interesting... peace through forced assimilation across generations.

This would be a great story seed. It is discussed in the Strider tribebook. The author Strider did not trust the CoGs one bit, because he had started to build a picture of them beyond the Hippy image. And he disliked it.

Maybe Samir the Jackal sees one CoG style funeral too many, and begins to truly dig into the tribe. His dirt digging brings some angry CoGs to him, and he has to run and get help.

It could be a creepy story, filled with the 'we are ALL Gaia' brought to a disturbing level.

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Donor

Considering that the CoGs are most likely to hang about with the very human tribes, two of whom DON'T have access to the ancestor background (Glass Walkers and Striders) that could get very.... interesting. Being cut off from Ancestor spirits it does make it a lot harder to get to the bottom of WHY they don't have access. they have stories, and can go on quests to try and find some of it out, of course but don't have that direct knowledge that the other tribes do...

Rage Across Egypt even sets the CoGs up for being up up to something. we'll watch your caerns, use this nice rite to give you Gnosis... of course what the long term effect of that are... well... pour enough Child of Gaia Gnosis into a Strider, does it change them? we know getting it by EATING people sure does...

Nothing saying they can't take advantage of the situation, help the poor Striders out for reasons other than the goodness of their hearts. Or entirely out of their own version of "goodness". Better to be reborn as a Child of Gaia than be cut off forever!

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Donor

Over on the Rage forum there's a chronicle game going on and this happened:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DENTE: Sound Thrashing asks to Pearl River: "Pearl River, what's best in life?

BERNA:: Pear River answers: "Unite the Garou Nation, enjoy Gaia's blessing and make beautiful ritual hippie sex with a metis." she suggests.

DENTE: Sound Thrashing says: "WRONG! And a little disgusting."

She then turns to Golgol: "Golgol, what's best in life?"

Golgol answers loudly: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Wyrm"

Sound Thrashing agrees: "Good, that's good"

BERNA: Very well then. Pearl River will attack Kills the Weak. The pacifistic COG also wanna do their part.

Kills should be thankfull he is not a metis. Because who knows what kind of porn a Cog theurge sees when she looks at a metis and raises a spear... (that joke will never go old...)

BAYOU: Kills is a metis...

FENRIS: His metis deformity is bad artwork.

BERNA: Pearl: "UUUUUuuuu a METIS! SQUEEEEEEEEE!!"

those Children are more deviant than the BSD's i tell you.

FENRIS: Kills the Weak is TERRIFIED by this turn of events and Fox Frenzies before first round.

NO NO BAD TOUCHING.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The snark has continued to be just as bad. I'm not sure whether that's "curse you CoG book" or "bless you CoG book" for this mighty snark.

(The chronicle game is basically a multigame series where characters killed in previous rounds can't be put in next round's decks. which ever side, Gaia or Wyrm, gets a 100 point lead wins the Last Battle)

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Most excellent thread. I'd like to see this for more tribebooks to be honest. Would you consider the CoG tribebook to be the worst? or would you leave that privilege to another book?

Thanks Anna, Krieg, and Cat for reading the book so I don't have to :)

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Curator

Most excellent thread. I'd like to see this for more tribebooks to be honest. Would you consider the CoG tribebook to be the worst? or would you leave that privilege to another book?

Thanks Anna, Krieg, and Cat for reading the book so I don't have to :)

I like the idea - maybe we should do a "We all read..." thing for all the tribebooks. Bone Gnawers would be first in the alphabet... people up for this?

I think CoG comfortably wins as the worst. In most people's books, Stargazers tends to come a comfortable second - the author had some cool ideas, but I'm not terribly enamoured of how he went about them. It helps/doesn't help that most of the tribebooks are pretty damn good. Weak books stand out.

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I like the idea - maybe we should do a "We all read..." thing for all the tribebooks. Bone Gnawers would be first in the alphabet... people up for this?

I think CoG comfortably wins as the worst. In most people's books, Stargazers tends to come a comfortable second - the author had some cool ideas, but I'm not terribly enamoured of how he went about them. It helps/doesn't help that most of the tribebooks are pretty damn good. Weak books stand out.

Yeah, MOST revised TBs are very well written. It's why CoG IS such a horror story to begin with.

I'd be willing to take a crack at the 'Gazer book, if anyone wants to join in?

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Curator

Yeah, MOST revised TBs are very well written. It's why CoG IS such a horror story to begin with.

I'd be willing to take a crack at the 'Gazer book, if anyone wants to join in?

I'd rather do a book I enjoy reading first :P Although I'm not that big a fan of Bone Gnawers either...

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