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The Humans are Dead...

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I was having a drunken discussion with some friends from a steampunk larp yesterday, and we got to talking about the apocalypse and what would happen if all the humans died. Say they all started suffering from a wasting disease, turned into zombies, spontaneously combusted, etc. While the vampires are busy fighting over who gets to make it to space to claim the last five humans in the universe, what would the Garou do?

As they can't mate with each other, would they die out within a generation? Or would they find a way to go on? After all there are instances of Garou mating with spirits. Could they sustain themselves that way?

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Well, you didn't mention anything about wolves dying out [you know, their other kinfolk.] They would probly just continue mating with them. I'm sure the Red Talons will be thrilled.

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Well, you didn't mention anything about wolves dying out [you know, their other kinfolk.] They would probly just continue mating with them. I'm sure the Red Talons will be thrilled.

Ooh, well spotted. It's easy to forget about the lupus kin when you live and run games in a country where wolves have been extinct for 300 years. Also, alcohol and stuff :P

Would that turn Garou into exlusively lupus breed in a few generations? Or do you think human kinfolk will just resurface (with wolf-daddies and garou-mummies)?

I want to run a game in that setting now.

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Hmm on that I'm not so sure. I'm not sure if the mother's form at the time of birth will alter the childs form, or if homid garou will give birth to human kin regardless of what she mated as.

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Procurator

If the mother is a Homid Garou, she'll have Homid babies. If she's Lupus, she'll have Lupus babies.

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If the mother is a Homid Garou, she'll have Homid babies. If she's Lupus, she'll have Lupus babies.

Oh well there you go. humanity will eventually be restored that way... if the garou themselves arn't wiped out soon after this event.

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Donor

Oh well there you go. humanity will eventually be restored that way... if the garou themselves arn't wiped out soon after this event.

"Pfft, Romulus and Remus? Rome? That was small time, kid."

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Cool. So the Garou will have another task in addition to stopping the vampires getting into space. Repopulate the earth.

Since isn't an avenue I have explored before, so I'm not quite sure how well it would work. But do you think homid Garou would willingly mate with Lupus kin? I mean, I'm sure they could be convinced to "lie back and think of England" if the world's population were at stake, but would it be something they'd do willingly? Would they feel squeamish about mating with an animal?

Hmm, I can imagine that becoming a world where homid kinfolk babies become more precious than even garou babies.

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...No I don't think they would find it that difficult. Its not like they have to have sex in Homid form [...unless they're into that I guess... but thats another can of worms Xp]

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Donor

...No I don't think they would find it that difficult. Its not like they have to have sex in Homid form [...unless they're into that I guess... but thats another can of worms Xp]

I wish i still had that old stick figure drawing but.

DO IT FROM BEHIND!

FOR GAIA!

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First off, I'm assuming humans just suddenly disappeared (which happens to be one of my favorite alternative fiction types). So the only 'humans' left are homids, and no other specie was harmed.

First, there is the the fact that humanity had caused plenty of problems, and with them gone, a lot of the pollution and taint would be gone. While modern garou as a whole might have been very pro-human, there are always garou who long for the old days when humanity knew their place.

And not just Red Talons, even a Glass Walker might feel superior to humans and treat them as cattle. Not very wise of course, but it can happen.

With humanity gone, these garou would first voice the against -need- to breed more humans. After all, with humans gone, they can now focus more on breeding more wolves and cleansing taint easier. And with no Veil needed, the garou are free to do as they please once again.

The sounds tempting, right? A paradise without limits and taint. Well, garou are not just wolves. Red Talon breeding shows us, that the lack of human blood can make the garou less reliant on their brains and logic, relying instead on inctincts. Eventually, a garou with no human blood would become nothing more than an animal with Rage and little cognitive ability to direct it.

So, humans are needed. But maybe not 'now', after all, with the freedom to repopulate the wolf kinfolk and cleanse the cities, the garou might not want to bring along the new human race immeadeatly. Better to wait and build resources.

And, finally, if they DO manage to get around making more humans through wolfxhomid pairings (doggie style for gaia!), what then? Should humanity once more be under Impregrium? Should they be without Veil, servants of garou quite directly?

At leadt breeding them shouldn't be a problem, considering the 1/10 cubs rule for garou.

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And, finally, if they DO manage to get around making more humans through wolfxhomid pairings (doggie style for gaia!), what then? Should humanity once more be under Impregrium? Should they be without Veil, servants of garou quite directly?

odds are it wouldn't be an issue for a long time; these humans will be brought up as extensions of the Garou, rather than vice versa. They're going to grow up with Gaia, with the tribal philosophies, the history, all of it. Unless the species of humanity itself is somehow cursed to forever be cosmic douchebags, odds are good that they would actually form societies that don't need anything like the Impergium.

The Impergium basically happened because the Garou just didn't pay any attention to the humans, and then suddenly one day there's millions of 'em building cities and listening to the weaver and being ruled by vampires and stuff, and the Garou reacted to what they saw as a threat.

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odds are it wouldn't be an issue for a long time; these humans will be brought up as extensions of the Garou, rather than vice versa. They're going to grow up with Gaia, with the tribal philosophies, the history, all of it. Unless the species of humanity itself is somehow cursed to forever be cosmic douchebags, odds are good that they would actually form societies that don't need anything like the Impergium.

The Impergium basically happened because the Garou just didn't pay any attention to the humans, and then suddenly one day there's millions of 'em building cities and listening to the weaver and being ruled by vampires and stuff, and the Garou reacted to what they saw as a threat.

Even if there would be no real danger of history repeating itself, garou still have had less than stellar experiences with humans.

First off, Red Talons would be against the idea of humanity entirely, but that is nothing new. However, depending how long the world has gone without human at that point, some garou might argue that it simply isn't worth the risk to let humanity rise once more.

Impregrium could be set as a precaution if things -did- go south and humanity again would become the agent of Weaver. Paranoia is a powerful thing, and for a species so tied to protecting the earth as garou are, they would fear making the same mistake twice.

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Ana,

I'd urge a reading of the Red Talon book - the Talons don't hate humans. They hate humanity. There's a bit of a difference. To the way Talons look at it, humans are an animal like any other... but it so happens that this particular animal has overstepped its bounds. Most of the tribe looks at the situation as the same as when deer overpopulate - pretty soon you have denuded lands and a lot of starving, diseased deer. And hte best solution for everyone involved - the deer, the land, the animals that depend on the deer - is to kill plenty of deer, whittle the population down to a sustainable level. Those Talons that want to exterminate humanity are regarded as extremists by hteir own tribe - not that the tribe has a hard time understanding where they're coming from, but Griffin abhors extinction, and so do the majority of Talons.

I imagine that (Assuming there is still a Red Talon tribe at this point,) the tribe will look at the situation, and decide to take a very active part in making sure the new Garou-born humans understand how the world works.

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Ana,

I'd urge a reading of the Red Talon book - the Talons don't hate humans. They hate humanity. There's a bit of a difference. To the way Talons look at it, humans are an animal like any other... but it so happens that this particular animal has overstepped its bounds. Most of the tribe looks at the situation as the same as when deer overpopulate - pretty soon you have denuded lands and a lot of starving, diseased deer. And hte best solution for everyone involved - the deer, the land, the animals that depend on the deer - is to kill plenty of deer, whittle the population down to a sustainable level. Those Talons that want to exterminate humanity are regarded as extremists by hteir own tribe - not that the tribe has a hard time understanding where they're coming from, but Griffin abhors extinction, and so do the majority of Talons.

I imagine that (Assuming there is still a Red Talon tribe at this point,) the tribe will look at the situation, and decide to take a very active part in making sure the new Garou-born humans understand how the world works.

Okay, I'm sorry for messing that up.

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Donor

If you go disease route for humanity going "poof" you also have the possibility that Kinfolk aren't effected by whatever it is. Depending on how long that dying out takes, that scenario potentially works as a big reveal for the supernaturals. why aren't you dying!?! OMG. if its a slow die out scenario, the supernaturals of all sorts might suddenly be handed the reins for all sorts of governmental organizations as they aren't going to drop dead. You don't want your president dropping dead at any second... VOTE WEREWOLF!

You also potentially wouldn't have all of the Homid Kinfolk die out in a "fast death" scenario either... unless the diseases caused miscarriages in Garou. Unborn children are protected by their mother's immune system, so any pregnant Garou could probably fight off the disease easily. Just so long as they didn't deliver baby before disease had burned itself out in population, you'd have a whole generation of humans. Of course they'd be humans raised by wolves who might never see another actual HUMAN and be extremely desirable as mates. Expect arranged marriages for ALL of them.

(barring weirdness with Homid Garou mate with wolves, produce human children... which never made any goddamned sense, but whatever)

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Just so long as they didn't deliver baby before disease had burned itself out in population, you'd have a whole generation of humans. Of course they'd be humans raised by wolves who might never see another actual HUMAN and be extremely desirable as mates. Expect arranged marriages for ALL of them.

That scenario reminds me of an old B movie. I can't recall what it was called but it was about a boy and his psychic linked dog trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world. He eventually discovers a small colony of woman and the elderly and soon becomes the most popular guy there since he is essentially the only thing around capable of helping them reproduce.

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Wred,

That would be "A Boy and His Dog."

it's much weirder than you remember.

Hehe wierdness tends to come standards with these sorts of films. ^^

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If all the Humans died out would all the Formori, Changelings etc all die too?

If not could the Garou/BSD's not use some of them as breeding stock?

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