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Funny, but Orpheus wouldn't have been the same, if it had been done the same way as all the opther games... in my opinion at least.

The books I would have liked to see the most would be the remaining 4 Convention books for Mage: The Ascension. especially the NWO convention book would nice...

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Demon: the Fallen Storyteller's Handbook

Mummy: the Resurrection Storyteller's Handbook

I always loved the ST Handbooks, and so I would love to see some for two of my favorite game-lines.

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Demon: Angels.

Demon: Reconciler/Ravener/Luceferian etc. In other words Demon faction books, or a universal Faction book a la Houses of the Fallen.

Vampire: Why the Tzimisce suck: An unbiased analysis.

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Vampire: Why the Tzimisce suck: An unbiased analysis.

Oooh, we could do that on malkavians, and the tremere, heck all the clans could get a "Why this Clan sucks" book.

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Oooh, we could do that on malkavians, and the tremere, heck all the clans could get a "Why this Clan sucks" book.

Very true! Only difference however is that while the other books would be based on personal opinion the Tzimisce book would be based on facts biggrin.gif

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Very true! Only difference however is that while the other books would be based on personal opinion the Tzimisce book would be based on facts  biggrin.gif

Funny, I would've said the Toread...Oh! You mean "they suck" as in "bad"!

hehe.gif

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Breedbook wererabbits

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Oh the things I wanted to see...things that would have never sold probably but I don't care...

A full Ajaba Breedbook. Larger, revised Breedbooks, DA: Camazotz, more Rage Across books (includng Africa and more of South America)... RA Australia revised, expanded Bastet including tribebooks, Hengeyokai revised, an Ahadi book, DA: Hengeyokai Fourth Age, DA: Croatan, VA: Werewolf, Dark Ages material for more parts of the world, DA: Changing Breeds.

For other game lines... the rest of the revised Convention Books, plus more information about Disparates. More By Night books (again, some areas of the world were basically ignored), Wraith and Mage material that actually coveres Africa, Native Americans, Central/West Asia, and Australia. KotE By Night books. DA material for the rest of the world.

Basically, I wish there was fleshed out material for all six continents for both modern nights and dark ages. But it had no chance of happening. I just wish certain things had not been ignored.

For Exalted first edition.... a better Lunars book. Castebooks for the other Exalted. A Book of Demons to go with of GoD. Something about mortal religions outside the Realm.

Edited by Erinye

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A full Ajaba Breedbook. Larger, revised Breedbooks, DA: Camazotz, more Rage Across books (includng Africa and more of South America)... RA Australia revised, expanded Bastet including tribebooks, Hengeyokai revised, an Ahadi book, DA: Hengeyokai Fourth Age, DA: Croatan, VA: Werewolf, Dark Ages material for more parts of the world, DA: Changing Breeds.

...DA: Croatan? What's wrong with Croatan Song? And I really don't know if VA: Werewolf is necessary; the Garou have a culture that's largely ancient, so adapting to the Victorian age wouldn't take much more than Werewolf: The Apocalypse Revised, Werewolf: The Wild West, and...uh...that's it, I figure.

I imagine Revised breedbooks wouldn't hurt, though I don't think they're necessary for some of them (Rokea and Nagah were released quite late, weren't they?). Ajaba could use work, definitely.

The whole DA: Camazotz thing baffles me. They weren't in the Old World anymore by that point; if you're talking about a setting for North, Central, and South America, that's a fair sight different than the Dark Ages line. ...didn't Ethan Skemp want to do a "Kingdom of the Jaguar" supplement for Central America prior to the arrival of Europeans? That I could see. That'd be spiffy like Hell.

Rage Across Australia Revised is...necessary. Although honestly, I think the idea that there's that much werewolf involvement in Australia baffling. S'just me, though.

A new Hengeyokai I could be entirely behind, especially if it used the word "exotic" a lot less often, and maybe suggested that the Hengeyokai might in fact be ignorant of some things that those of the west know. Truly. I loved this part of "A World of Rage":

Westerners like to speak of Asia and its people as "exotic," "mysterious," or simply "other." These labels free observers from having to pay attention to details; indulging in flights of fantasy supported by the vaguest generalities certainly takes less effort than looking at real complexities. In truth, the countries at the eastern edge of Eurasia hold neither super-enlightened mystic masters, guardians of absolutely every truth and the rightful leaders of every decent human being, nor barely human little brown brothers, unfit for modern technology and in need of perennial stewardship. Asia is inhabited by people, some better than others, whose societies differ in some ways from those elsewhere and which share many points in common.

The same truth applies to all the supernatural inhabitants of the region. Ancient creatures of vast power do know secrets forgotten elsewhere, but in turn the elders of other continents know things that their Asian peers lost long ago or never knew. The twin veils of over-enthusiastic awe and unfounded condescension make it hard for Westerners to see Asia as it is, just as the people of Asia tend to see the West through a variety of falsifying lenses.

A version of Hengeyokai that truly kept this in mind would be a beautiful thing. And for the Ahadi / a general sourcebook for Africa in W:tA? Why yes, yes I would like.

Here's what I'd like:

1. A real version of Tribebook: Children of Gaia Revised. I can't express my loathing well enough.

2. Rage Across India. For real. If any location needs coverage in W:tA, it's this one. Not entirely under the dominion of the Garou Nation or other western traditions of the Changing Breeds, nor under that of the Beast Courts, but a little of both and largely neither. What can't you justify here? Ananasi of course; for the Bastet you have Bagheera, Khan, and I always wondered about the Simba, and Swara would've been appropriate in the past; Corvus corax inhabits northwestern India and the Corax are known to travel a bit anyhow; Kitsune...I don't really care about; the Makara Mokole are about; it's the true stronghold of Nagah, of course; the Ratkin are certainly everywhere; and Rokea can be justified along the coast of most countries.

And the Garou? Of course they're there, along with their wolf kinfolk. Black Furies with a focus on human rights might find their way there, Bone Gnawers are right at home, Children of Gaia are native to the Middle East and tend to roam, and seem happy to extend as far east as India; not so many Glass Walkers, but wherever there's a city there's a chance; plenty of Red Talons; apparently there're a few Shadow Lords (according to A World of Rage); India's a sort of second-home for many Silent Striders (along with North Africa and the Middle East, which serve as bases for their Egyptian efforts); the Silver Fangs are there in the Blood-Red Crest; and the Stargazers are all over the place!

3. I could use a kinda'...mixed-bag book for W:tA about gifts, rites, and totems. Truly I could. If they can make a book about fetishes so damned chewy instead of just crunchy, I know they could do it. Mmmn. Totems.

4. A setting for an Ice Age era kind of thing. I've seen some fan ideas for this, and I must love it.

And I can't oppose the idea of a definitive end for the WoD more. Having that would invalidate so much, I think, and inevitably slight more than a few gamelines.

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Rage Across India *lix lips* now thats a book I'd have paid good money for too. Nice choice!

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DA: Croatan: because Croatan Song only contains the little bits that the Uktena and Wendigo can remember about them and their territory, which is pretty cool but not as much as you'd think. Its more a setting book for the entire continent in DA and much less a tribebook with a book's worth of information on one tribe.

VA: Werewolf: A Rage Across Europe for the VA as it were ... and including Fera information, mostly Ratkin and Corax I suppose, but still.

DA: Camazotz: or Kingdom of the Jaguar. Same thing. "spiffy" doesn't begin, man. I'd shell out through the nose for it.

Tribebook: Children of Gaia Revised: Oh hell yes, I forgot that one. Just hearing about it thirdhand makes me cringe.

Rage Across India: I kinda meant that in saying, more Rage Across books in general.

A setting for an Ice Age era kind of thing: I suppose if I can ask for Rage Across for every region of the world, you can ask for this. And it would require Breedbooks for Grondr and Apis. And its own Changing Breeds book because everything is so different back then. But that would be cool.

I'd love to see a Khem book, set before the curse on the Silent Striders, based in Egypt. Basically just rules for playing Striders, Bubasti, Mokole, and stuff, it could be a Vampire crossover book even, with rules for both sides. But setting information for Old and Middle and New Kingdoms, and Intermediate Periods, and so on. Vampires fighing werewolves all over Ancient Egypt. It would rock.

EDIT: Oh. And I'd wish for an official statement irrevocably retconning WOD: Gypsies and every word in it.

Edited by Erinye

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A lot of the Dark Ages stuff went down the drain, unfortunately. For Vampire there was to be a Brujah Chronicle. As I always liked the other Chronicle books I really looked forward to this one.

Kingdom of the Jaguar would have been a lot of fun, too.

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I've had an idea for a Tremere Chronicle, but more like the Giovanni Chronicle was, several books long. The story I want to tell with the Tremere Chronicle would span from the time the Tremere were mortal Magi to the Final Nights. I'm planning a Chronicle using DA Mage to start the game off, taking loads of notes and I hope one day telling everyone here about it... so I'm actually kind of glad a Tremere Chronicle was never made... lets me have the fun of it!

Oh yeah... We needed the BoG people, Book of Glamour all the way.

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I've had an idea for a Tremere Chronicle, but more like the Giovanni Chronicle was, several books long. The story I want to tell with the Tremere Chronicle would span from the time the Tremere were mortal Magi to the Final Nights. I'm planning a Chronicle using DA Mage to start the game off, taking loads of notes and I hope one day telling everyone here about it... so I'm actually kind of glad a Tremere Chronicle was never made... lets me have the fun of it!

Oh yeah... We needed the BoG people, Book of Glamour all the way.

sad thing is, the dark age part of this was covered by House of Tremere. Might also be part of transylvania chronicle. haven't read that stack yet.

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Transylvania Chronicle don't focus on this story, though there are hints on how to do so. House of Tremere covers the foundation of Ceoris and the transformation of the Tremere into Vampires from one side. The story is told by a ghost of a dead hermetic mage... he doesnt talk about what came before (not much at least) and he has no clue what happens outside the wall of the fortress. Plenty of room for a story.

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There's alot of stuff already mentionned that would be really great, but I won't repeat them again. Me, what I'd like very much to see is a Player's Guide to the Bloodlines. Because some of the bloodlines were more interesting than some of the thirteen clans. And if Werewolf can have Breed Books and the Baali can have their own clanbooks, why not give the Samedi, Kyasid and other assorted weirdness their chance to shine? That would included details on the bloodline's, their powers, their politics, everything you'd find in a clanbook in the end. Also, maybe with a reworking of Thanatosis into a path of Necromancy.

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Sensible write-ups for other nations would have been nice. As it stood at the ToJ, Australia is populated solely by Steve Irwin wannabes. Uh, hello?

As far as a Nightmares book goes... the Fae are supposed to be a global encounter rate of 2%. For me, their write-up in EB: Urban Legends is more than enough, coupled with the Antagonists section of H: tR, the ST's Handbook, and the ST's Guide.

Decent Hunter fiction would also be nice.

If I could retcon: No Time of Judgement for Hunter. The whole point of the Reckoning is that the world doesn't end, it just gets worse and worse and worse...

For Demon, the Angels are still around. They became the Messengers, and for a variety of reasons (such as "They are way too powerful to represent with stats*,") are unplayable.

*ToJ's lame effort aside.

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War of Rage, for W:tA. A prehistoric book with all the Changing breed clashing each other. A bit fantasy in setting, but it would have been great.

And of course the four remaining Convention books. When I see the quality of ITX revised, I don't understand why the rest haven't follow. And I want starship battle against things from beyond (Hum, not really realistic today...)

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quote Decent Hunter fiction would also be nice. quote

Give the Predator and Prey stuff some credit.

While the information on Messengers is supposed to be limitwed, I wouldn't have minded a bit more expansion on the subject.

Oh, and a complete collection of Fyodor's rantings!

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Sensible write-ups for other nations would have been nice. As it stood at the ToJ, Australia is populated solely by Steve Irwin wannabes. Uh, hello?

Indeed. The fact that Nightward exists proves that Australia is populated by crocodile fighting gamers, which are much different than mere Steve Irwin wannabes.

Predator and Prey's Hunter half deserves no credit.

Edited by Lost_Heretic

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Black Markets: X, where X is any or all of the gamelines,

Plot hooks where characters can get dragged into any kind of illegal trades in black market materials ("yeah we just got a new set of ghoul teeth in last night, mostly the mages going for those, Heh.. now okay less with the staring.. Oh shi-"), basically the dirty underside of WOD (if that sounds possible). In wartime its always the criminals on both sides that get along so I figure even cross species..

kind of a friendlier more realistic crossover book than dirty secrets of the black hand was. Dunno always liked the idea, never used it.

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Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand was... interesting. I've heard people say it's not canon or something to that effect, though that idea has never been explained to me. Personally I was a little intrigued by the idea but, like you said, I never used it. The closest I came was the True Brujah and Old World Tzimisce (Old Clan... I can't remember... damn book is all the way over there and I am WAY too lazy!). I also liked the whole Vicissitude is a sick mutant illness from another dimension. Weird... never used that either.

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Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand was... interesting. I've heard people say it's not canon or something to that effect, though that idea has never been explained to me. Personally I was a little intrigued by the idea but, like you said, I never used it. The closest I came was the True Brujah and Old World Tzimisce (Old Clan... I can't remember... damn book is all the way over there and I am WAY too lazy!). I also liked the whole Vicissitude is a sick mutant illness from another dimension. Weird... never used that either.

Well, what happened is that later books ended up greatly contradicting it, mostly because the writers of those later books thought that the content of the book was silly (things like elders who can easily timetravel without a roll, and vicisitude actualy being an alien from another dimension).

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Well, what happened is that later books ended up greatly contradicting it, mostly because the writers of those later books thought that the content of the book was silly (things like elders who can easily timetravel without a roll, and vicisitude actualy being an alien from another dimension).

Plus there was the lovly confusion of, if tzimce didnt get viscitude passed on to his childer until some time much later on, why did his earlier children have 3 heads, multiple arms etc.

I always liked the souleater thing as a precursor for tzimce taking over his entire clan, but I'm told it wasnt anything to do with that.

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> but I'm told it wasnt anything to do with that.

Yes and no.

The concept of vicissitude as an alien intelligent parasite from another dimension was not, in fact, used anywhere outside Dirty Little Secrets.

It was refined and rewritten, however, into the idea that the Tzimisce antedeluvian lived on through the blood and the Discipline. The concept of Tzimisce controlling anyone who's drunk the blood of one of his childer has it's roots in the original Soul Eaters concept, and the Official Story is that the "Soul Eaters" are simply an inaccurate and misguided incorrect description of the Father's will.

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